AGONA Interview: Arthur Papas, an all-round coach with great achievements and Greek ambitions (Part 1)
AGONAsport’s Greg Gavalas caught up with Arthur Papas, the head coach under Ange Postecoglou at Yokohama F. Marinos, on Arthur’s compelling story as well as his ambitions and thoughts on the Greek game in the first of a two-part interview.
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Like all things in life, things change, and to be successful, you need to be up to date with what makes your destiny work. This is no different in football, and we have seen the world game develop and change as time goes on.
While we see the finished product on the field, a lot goes on behind the scenes with coaching, fitness preparation, tactics, and mentality. However, it goes beyond that too, with academies that can set your club or country up for success, and that fine line can make a big difference to what works and what doesn’t.
One such person who has had their fair share of experience in this is Greek-Australian football coach Arthur Papas. The Melbourne-born coach has dedicated his life to perfecting the art of football on and off the field. As such, his travels have taken him from the Hyundai A-League to overseas jobs in India, Saudi Arabia, Belgium, the United States, and where he is based now, Japan, working with one of the most successful Greek-Australian coaches ever, Ange Postecoglou.
Arthur’s story is compelling and interesting to listen to. Our very own Greg Gavalas jumps into that with Arthur in a featured interview. Greg talked to Arthur about another passion of his, Greek Football, as well as his ambitions and thoughts on the Greek game in this two-part series.
AGONAsport: Arthur, after several knee injuries in your mid-20s, you decided to focus your football career on coaching. You spent a good spell in Canberra with the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS). Tell us about that early period of 2008-2009?
By the time I had reached my mid-20s, I had solely committed and devoted myself to becoming a professional football coach and having a career outside of Australia. By 2008, I was in the final year of an Exercise Science degree and had been gaining practical experience across numerous coaching realms. I was also progressing with my coaching licenses when I enrolled in a KNVB Coaching Course at the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra.
As someone who grew up enchanted by some great Dutch teams of the past, it was an opportunity to gain a basic insight into the Dutch model of football. I had loved football from the earliest of ages, so any opportunity to learn was something that I was open to, and I hold this same mindset today. Hence, why I feel there is no ceiling to what is possible.
In hindsight, I would say that attending this course was one of the key moments in my career. Fortunately, I was identified as someone with the potential characteristics to be an elite coach by the KNVB Instructors, and this resulted in opportunities that had I not been identified that might have prolonged my trajectory.
AS: You were awarded the role of AIS Men’s Football Scholarship Coach under the watch of technical directors Rob Baan & Han Berger. This is awarded to only a handful of Australians over time. What made you stand out, and what came out of this?
I’ve always felt it was a combination of things that resulted in receiving this role. As mentioned, I made a positive impression with the KNVB instructors in 2008. Secondly, I pursued higher education and practical experience in Coaching, Exercise Science, and Performance Analysis, which ensured I could provide support across numerous disciplines. Thirdly, I was someone who wasn’t attached within the football system, meaning I had basically pursued my own path and my own developing vision for football. The way I loved the game to be played was based around developing teams who played attacking football while dominating with the ball.
I grew up being mesmerised by technically gifted players, however, I felt that I grew up in a football landscape where the physical aspect of the game was overemphasised at the cost of the technical.
There is also a great little story in here for anyone who has been told that something is impossible. It traces back to 2005. Once I committed to becoming the best coach possible, I read about the AIS Scholarship Coach position and thought it was the perfect role. If I were able to obtain this, I would receive an even deeper education and understanding of elite level coaching. So, I called the AIS and spoke to the current Football Program explaining what I wanted to achieve and was fairly quickly told that a position as such was reserved for former professional players, and hence it would be impossible to be awarded this scholarship.
At the time of hearing that, I was once again disillusioned with the mentality towards the opportunities presented for how a coach develops in Australia, but it just made me even more determined. So I made it a goal to be awarded this scholarship, which I eventually achieved four years later.
It is still a big part of my mindset today. That is where I maintain a strong self-belief and conviction in that everything is possible to achieve when you are truly committed, focused, consistent in your approach, and willing to work hard.
AS: Dutch coach, Jan Versleijen, played an important part in mentoring and development. How important was he in this time?
I am always grateful for the mentoring and faith Jan provided me. Jan possesses so many great qualities both in football and even more so on a human level; he is a very intelligent individual. He is an outstanding football professional who, over his whole tenure, never missed a qualification through Asia for a World Cup both at the U17 and U20 level. It is something that seems never to be spoken about, but these are facts and are not opinion-based.
On a personal level, Jan has proven to be an exemplary role model over the course of ten years, a good friend, and we still maintain regular contact today. I am certain the two years I spent working with Jan at the Australian Institute of Sport have been pivotal in the way I view coaching at a professional level.
AS: In late 2010 and at just the age of 30, you were appointed head coach of Oakleigh Cannons in the Victorian Premier League (VPL) and guided the club to their first finals appearance in three seasons and reached the Grand Final. How did you find your first gig at Oakleigh and put your learnings to practise?
Oakleigh was the perfect club for so many reasons. They possessed a young and ambitious committee, They were the up and coming Greek-backed club located in the Greek community hub and were also coming off a challenging three years where they had missed the finals on every occasion.
After a couple of discussions on the phone, I remember flying down to Melbourne, where I presented to the Oakleigh board an analysis of the current situation and my vision on where I wanted to take the club from such areas as playing style and recruitment, and culture. This resonated with them as they were desperate for change.
Personally, it was a great experience because I had been working so hard for years to prepare for that opportunity, and although I was inexperienced at the time, I was full of self-belief and conviction for what was required to be successful in the role. Some of the most important learning moments came from that season, and they are the experiences I still call upon today. They are not always the ones that make you feel the best at the time, but they build your resolve and depth, your level of understanding for leading a club, a team, a group of men. It is something I’ve always been willing to embrace head-on.
AS: How rewarding was the award of VPL Coach of the Year in 2011?
It was so long ago now, and of course, it was an honour because your peers adjudge it. But it is not the memory I hold onto from that season as an award like that is only possible with the support and commitment of a club, the players, and the staff who believed in the path and worked tirelessly to achieve success together.
I always look to grow as a professional and person. My fondest memory of that season was in the knowledge that I gained even further self-belief and tested my coaching methods. It only made me hungrier, moving forward to push every boundary in front of me, which still continues relentlessly today.
AS: In late 2011, your career went up a level when you were recruited by A-League club Newcastle Jets as a first-team assistant coach and national youth league head coach, and you were reunited with Gary Van Egmond, who you worked with at the AIS. Tell us about your Newcastle experience and why it came to an end earlier than expected after the plan was to succeed further there?
Moving back to professional football was a clear goal for me, and joining Newcastle Jets was due to the professional relationship between myself and Gary Van Egmond. Gary had been at the AIS at the time I was in Canberra, and we built a strong rapport. He had since moved back to the Newcastle Jets with the intention to develop a young team that could associate itself with the Hunter Valley region.
At the time, it was an easy decision to take up this opportunity as it provided Head Coach experience within the youth setup and also the ability to coach within the first-team setup.
AS: Out of nowhere, you found yourself with an offer to coach in India after an unexpected call from their FA Technical Director, Rob Baan, about their youth development system. You then found yourself in Delhi, how did that happen?
I met Rob in 2008 at the KNVB course in Canberra. He had since moved on as Football Australia Technical Director and was now the Technical Director in India. We also maintained contact over the course of time, and Rob had received positive feedback from Jan about my time at the AIS.
We had just reached the off-season in Newcastle, and it was a very uncertain time due to the ownership issues with Nathan Tinkler. As a club, there was a lack of certainty, and they were in a position where they couldn’t guarantee anything until the situation with the owner and federation was resolved.
It was exactly at this time that Rob Baan extended an invitation to visit him in India and explore a possible opportunity working for the Indian FA. After spending a few days in India, I had actually decided to return to Newcastle for the following season, however, on the night I was due to fly back to Newcastle a new opportunity arose to lead the Indian U23 National Team as Head Coach, but I had to decide on the spot. Instantaneously I decided to accept this position with a proviso from the Indian FA that I had to return within seven days to prepare for the upcoming AFC Cup in Oman.
Reflecting, now I laugh a little at how quickly I was able to make this decision because it made me realise how much my ambition overshadowed any rational thinking concerning lifestyle, stability, or entering such an unknown situation. It just tells me that the only thought that mattered at the time was to lead a nation at an international tournament and how much I was willing to embrace any challenge.
AS: For the 2012/13 season, you were head coach of the Indian U23 team and Pailan Arrows. Can you explain how that worked in the Indian I-League, and how did the team perform?
We returned from Oman with the Indian U23 team achieving the country's strongest results at that level. This was achieved while employing a possession-based attacking style of play. In India at the professional league level, teams rarely provided opportunities to young players to play, and hence the Indian FA had placed the core of the Indian U23 team as a club side to play in the top tier domestic league. This way, the talented young players would train in a professional environment, play regular first-team matches, and gain the necessary experience, which is essential between the ages of 18-22.
Of course, this also meant playing in a league where they could get relegated, where they came up against big-budget teams, who also had the advantage of foreign players.
It's a season I have so many fond memories of, though, as the results improved dramatically in the previous season while implementing a high-intensity, aggressive, attacking style of play. We had setbacks as well, and I made mistakes along the way but gained so much from the whole experience.
More important, though, than any team result achieved was the development of so many senior national team players, who today are the domestic stars of the Indian Super League. To understand where these boys had come from, the hardship they had endured to pursue their dreams, how all of them have been able to provide for their families due to their football careers is what made it so satisfying, and I'm grateful I had this opportunity to be a part of their journeys.
AS: After your success with the Indian U23 team and Pailan Arrows, you moved onto another Indian club, Dempo, who are based in Goa. There, you took them to a fourth-placed finish, qualified for the AFC Cup, won the GFA Cup, and placed as a finalist for the Federation Cup. However, a great as all that was, the wealthy owner had different ambitions. Tell us about this experience, and were you surprised by how it panned out?
I reflect on my time there as probably a matter of joining the right club at the wrong time. I was in a strong position where I had numerous club opportunities due to the U23 national team’s performances, and the decision was a combination of club and living.
I don’t regret the decision, but I am wiser for having gone through this process. It is not something that any coaching course can teach you. This was also the period in Indian football where a major restructure was slowly taking place, and it was becoming clear that the current top league being the I-League was on the verge of being replaced by the upcoming Indian Super League, which was backed by IMG. Therefore, even though we had a positive first season with Dempo, the owner who was and is a very passionate football person and had invested in Indian football for many years, decided to invest in a new Indian Super League franchise. This inevitably meant the ambition towards the current project at Dempo was redirected and understood purely from a business point of view as I-League clubs lost considerable sums per year.
As a coach who had just spent the previous 12 months building a squad to challenge for titles and implemented a playing style, the initial ambition and vision of the owner was the main motivation for accepting the job. Once this was no longer the priority, the decision to move on was a simple one.
AS: Coming back home to Melbourne in early 2015 after an exhausting but worthwhile Indian experience, you planned to rest up and recharge your batteries. But you found yourself at Oakleigh Cannons after they sent an SOS call to you?
Coming back to Melbourne was an experience that I needed to have for many reasons. Yes, my aim was to have some time off and recharge after my period in India. For all the fulfillment professionally, living in India had been challenging in terms of day-to-day living. I felt a little break would help me recharge and also allow me to evaluate my time in India and explore further development opportunities.
Timing-wise, though, my return to Melbourne coincided with my old club Oakleigh being caught up in a relegation battle, having gathered four points from nine games. I maintained close contact with the club over the years since I left, and they reached out to take over.
From a results point of view, we avoided relegation with four games to spare, qualified for the club's first-ever Dockerty Cup Final, and reached the FFA Cup quarter-finals.
Beyond the results, though, I found the experience beneficial mainly because I hadn't experienced coaching a team having not built it from the start of a season. It helped to understand the dynamics that exist within a club and team in such a position and how that works, which was invaluable.
AS: Come 2016, and you decided to coach at Green Gully SC, another team without a finals appearance in three seasons. While there, in the FFA Cup, your team defeated A-League side, Central Coast Mariners, in the Round of 32. Was that an emotional win, or were other achievements at the club more of a standout like making the Dockerty Cup Final?
Of course, the win against Central Coast Mariners is the game that is often remembered and spoken about. It was a proud day for the club as it was the first time they had been back on the national stage of football in nearly 30 years. It was a real David versus Goliath match where our group showed tremendous belief to claim one of the biggest upsets in Australian football history.
Importantly, we returned the club to consecutive finals appearances and a Dockerty Cup final as well. However, within that period came a strong realisation that no matter what happened at that level, I would struggle to feel fulfilled unless I was part of professional football and around like-minded professionals.
I needed to have this experience as a reminder of how passionate I was about coaching and never just settling for a job.
During this period, I made some key decisions that have allowed me to reach where I am today. Although there are many passionate and talented people at that level, it only made my ambition to return to professional football become stronger and stronger as this is not the vision I had for my career when I committed all those years ago.
AS: After local successes, Asia came calling again and this time in Saudi Arabia with Saudi Pro League team, Ettifaq FC. However, it was a tough gig in a tough new environment. Tell us about why you signed for the club and the experience as you had to get the team out of a relegation battle after the club had failed to win in three months.
I signed for Ettifaq alongside Dutch Coach Eelco Schattorie with the club having sacked Spanish coach Juan Garrido after not winning one league match in three months.
Objectives set by the club were quite clear: stop the slide in results and avoid relegation. I think this is the moment I gained even more understanding of the situation, unlike at Oakleigh in 2015. I was much more aware of the situation being inherited and the dynamics that could exist within the dressing room, how temperamental it could be, and how much energy and conviction it was going to require.
In a general sense, and not having known too much about football in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi Pro League and the level of the domestic player was of a very high level. Our players quickly embraced the change in leadership and playing concepts. Fairly quickly, we became competitive again and gained the results required to avoid relegation with one game to spare.
My time in Saudi Arabia only reinforced my desire and ambition to coach at the highest professional levels possible.
AS: In 2018, you embarked on some Project Management and Football Consultant work with a Belgian company called Double Pass, and this led to a new dawning of Networking. This very sophisticated level of Talent Development and set up took you to Japan and the United States. Tell us about Double Pass and your experience.
Double Pass is a world-leading European company based in Belgium that advises clubs, leagues, and federations on optimizing their Talent Development and building club systems to produce world-class players.
Having had wide-ranging professional experiences along my journey from Technical Director, First Team Coach, and Youth Coach, plus the higher education background, my profile appealed to them while they were expanding their pool of consultants.
Some of the Double Pass clients included the English Premier League, Bundesliga, Belgium FA, Danish Superliga, J.League, and MLS. From an educational point of view, I was able to access cutting edge, best practice understanding of models being built and incorporated them at the highest level of world football.
I was appointed as the Project Manager/Consultant for Japan. The basic premise was to educate professional clubs in Japan on how to build their Academy system from all areas, including staff, philosophy, curriculum, talent ID, and individual development, to produce world-class players. That year alone, I visited nearly 20 professional clubs from Japan working closely to build club specific football models that will hopefully assist in the long term to take Japanese football to an even higher level.
AS: Would countries like Greece benefit from working with Double Pass?
Without a doubt, Greece as a country would benefit from a Double Pass type of involvement with clear aims of realigning the overall youth football structure and building best-practice football models while also defining the pathway for youth players. That way, they can receive top-level experience at the correct moments in their maturation.
Of course, that is a very broad analysis of what could be key steps, but unless you can make a comprehensive assessment as a starting point, only then can you develop the necessary steps in the correct order with the aim of producing world-class talents. This remains the overall aim.
AS: How did you find yourself back in India with Northeast United in the Indian Super League, where you took another club to a new milestone, their first finals appearance?
I had some opportunities to return to India since departing in 2015 and made the decision to return in 2018 to join Northeast United in the Indian Super League and work again with Eelco Schattorie, who had taken over after Avram Grant left the club.
In India, the Northeast is renowned as a hotbed for football talent, and the challenge was to take a club to their first finals series as they had not made this stage since the Indian Super League was formed.
When I left India in 2015, I never believed I would return as I was happy to close that chapter and seek new adventures. Although it was only a brief stay, the second time around was a warming experience.
I was able to meet again with so many people and players that I had forged relationships with. Playing a part in helping Northeast United reach the finals for the first time in their history was rewarding.
I am grateful for the experiences I have had in India. It is not a country renowned for its football but is a unique country for many reasons. I can only be thankful for the life experiences I have come across there, and I appreciate the bonds that were formed and how you can find a way to relate to people from such different backgrounds through the game of football.
AS: In late 2018, you received a text that links to Ange Postecoglou about an opportunity to work with him at Yokohama F. Marino in Japan. Excited, no doubt, you jumped at the chance, and were appointed assistant coach. How did you adapt to Japan and Ange?
It was quite surreal to receive that text from Ange. Even today, I know the exact spot of where I was, and it was an emotional feeling to experience because I had been working so hard and for so many years for an opportunity like this one.
Ange represented so many parts of the game that I resonated with, and to now have the chance to work with him in Japan was the exact challenge I was craving. It was also the opportunity I felt would challenge me to grow and develop to help me become the best version of myself that is possible.
You can never underestimate the value of positive and successful role models, and in Ange, I was sure he was precisely this, and it’s proven to be the case and a great period in my journey.
AS: You guys go on to create history and become the first Australians to win the J League. What was that like?
It was a victory borne out of hard work and belief, led by a leader with an incredible vision and personal conviction who ensured that we relentlessly pursued success every day.
To approach every day with no fear and only see opportunities was a constant theme, and this was instilled into the playing group daily, which made the success ever so special.
Winning is always nice, but I’ll be honest and say I have been part of victories at times and not been happy because I had felt the belief had been lacking, that the easy route had been taken. And if that’s the case, I take full responsibility for that. I possess an enormous clarity on this now.
So what made this success so special was that the belief within that to win was not enough. But to win by playing a special brand of football, to win while staying true to our beliefs, to not view the win as purely three points, but about making sure we provided our fans with an experience that had them on the edge of their seats. Our reasons for winning were so much more than three points, and this is what separates Ange as a truly remarkable manager and propelled a group of men to achieve something special.
AS: This year, you were appointed head coach under Postecoglou. How would you describe the style of football and philosophy you look to coach into your team?
It is mostly about aligning the vision Ange has for how we want the team to play and then ensuring we speak this language in every facet of our delivery from areas such as training design, video analysis, and coaching methodology - all with the aim of evolving and improving daily, our environment is everything.
Clearly the easy road would be to repeat what happened in 2019 and in theory that would produce the same result. But, that kind of thinking or complacency doesn’t exist in Ange’s mind and it certainly doesn’t exist in mine.
It’s a constant process of evolution and even within last season, there were changes that were occurring within the teams’ style which were organically coming to the fore. Our job became just give them a little nudge and from there the players would run with it.
Ange has such a sharp eye for these details, though, while also allowing them to occur sub-consciously for the players which ensures the creativity is not stifled or rigid.
It’s a key reason his teams have always played with so much flair and creativity. It has been an important aspect for me to observe and understand. It also comes with experience that as a coach you have to understand what you can control whilst not trying to control everything because in the end, players need to feel confident to make decisions on the field and find solutions within the framework.
Every day, I appreciate how fortunate I am to work for Ange, his passion for football, and his ability to create successful teams that play such great football I admire, and every day is a learning experience.
