AGONA Interview: Arthur Papas, an all-around coach with great achievements and Greek ambitions (PART 2)
AGONAsport’s Greg Gavalas caught up with Arthur Papas, the head under Ange Postecoglou at Yokohama F. Marinos, on Arthur’s compelling story as well as his ambitions and thoughts on the Greek game in the second part of a two-part interview.
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View part one here. Let’s take a step into Greek Football and your Greek heritage.
AGONAsport: What part of Greece are you and your family from?
My father and his family are from Gennadi in Rhodes, whereas my mother’s family originated from Kilkis, which is just outside of Thessaloniki.
Personally, it is an aspect that I am very proud of, and I resonate strongly with aspects of the culture and have maintained a strong affiliation with my Greek heritage. Having spent considerable time in Greece over the years, I feel more and more associated with this part of my background as the years progress and feel fortunate to have my heritage and the connection to such a beautiful language and culture.
AS: You feel a close connection with Greece, and as such, like many omogenis, want to make something of that and a career there one day?
I definitely feel a deep connection and a desire to spend a part of my future in Greece because so much of the culture resonates with who I am. It genuinely feels like home on so many levels.
That is why I’m extremely proud that my coaching journey is mentioned in Greece and am grateful that my heritage is recognised because it is a big part of who I am and where I have come from.
Progressing that coaching journey to Greece at some stage is, without a doubt, an ambition that I have long held. It would all depend on the timing, along with the ambition of the project.
For now, though, I’m completely focused on my work in Japan and happy to represent my family’s heritage with absolute pride wherever in the world I may be coaching.
AS: Postecoglou spent some time in Greece with a sleeping giant there, Panachaiki. Does he tell you much about that experience?
We have spoken about that experience, and Ange only speaks positively about his time at Panachaiki, from the commitment of the players on the field to the beauty of having a city support every kick. He also discusses the passion which came with it when results weren’t positive, a true footballing culture which is what at the heart of everything still exists in Greece.
More so, having the opportunity to know Ange more and more over time, I do know he is very proud of his heritage, passionate about Greek football, and its potential. I think his time at Panachaiki further consolidated this while providing him with even more conviction for his coaching methods.
AS: Before the world went into lockdown, you had a chance to go to Greece and watch the U15 game between Olympiacos and Panathinaikos. What were your impressions of the level of football at this grassroots in the homeland?
As I normally do on my ‘supposed holidays,’ I end up trying to find as many games as possible to watch no matter where I am in the world. So, yes, I found myself watching a U15 match between Olympiacos and Panathinaikos in December.
It was a difficult day, weather-wise, and, of course, even though times have changed regarding each club’s current status; nonetheless, it is a famous rivalry. So, I was keen to see how that translates to the matches at the academy level.
I was also interested in observing if each club showed clear signs of a well-defined playing style in line with the club’s history or culture. So, I guess it’s difficult to make a summation based on one U15 match as there were clearly some talented individuals and some positive passages of play. Yet, at the same time, I left probably short of the expectation I had about what I would see on the day.
Maybe, and just maybe I left feeling Greek football at the youth level is missing out on the development of some very technical and creative players because that game - and again in isolation - seemed to favour the physically more developed and mature players. The playing style was indicative of this.
AS: You also saw some other matches, more senior games, were they better?
In the overall sense, what you see at a senior level normally trickles into the ideas in the youth sector. Therefore, the games I watched all possessed players who definitely are capable of playing exciting, attacking football, however, what I more or less observed where matches where each team was quite cautious in approach. Teams preferred to react rather than take the initiative, where the intensity was inconsistent and overall tempo quite slow.
I don’t believe this is indicative, though, of the players’ lack of ability, but rather a whole system where there is a lack of innovation, lack of self-belief in the players’ qualities, and the potential they truly have.
It takes courage and belief to produce teams that play without fear, and I feel this is an area where there is a huge scope for development.
AS: In the past, we have seen Greek players show much promise in their teen years and even early 20s only to never live up to their expectations. Why do you think this is and do any come to mind for you?
Again, this is a systematic question, and the pathway to becoming a first-team player is one area that needs to be clearly assessed within a country’s infrastructure.
In the end, there is very strong research that dissects some key fundamentals that increase the likelihood of developing top talents. One such fact is that between the ages of 18-22, talented players ideally play a high amount of first-team matches.
From only peering into the Greek football landscape and speaking with various contacts involved at the highest level in Greece, one common theme emerged: clubs/coaches are very reluctant to provide these opportunities within that age category. This inevitably means they have missed a key part of the development cycle.
What I have seen now over many years is that there is not one specific reason why someone becomes a top player, there are so many parts that contribute to the development cycle. This is why only a small percentage go on to carve out professional careers in the long run.
AS: From your experience, especially in setting up a successful academy which leads to ongoing success, is it fair to say that the Hellenic Football Federation (EPO) let a huge opportunity go to waste after Greece won the European Championships in 2004?
I think you could look at this remarkable achievement and wonder if the momentum that this victory could have been generated was taken full advantage of.
It is no doubt that it would have inspired a new generation of aspiring young players. However, this bodes the question of whether during this golden period of success and subsequent interest, was the country ready to capitalise on this. If it wasn’t, what steps were made in the ensuing years post 2004 to invest in the youth level and further professionalise the development system to bridge the gap on a consistent level with the best countries in Europe.
Of course, in-between this time, the financial crisis took place, and the effect of this economic period flowed into all sectors, football included, and cannot be underestimated.
Upon reflection and as a means to analyse subjectively, some steps can be assessed. They mostly revolve around the success of the senior national team, the quality of the Super League, and the number of players who play in top tier leagues and teams. It is a very simplified way of analysis but paints a fairly accurate picture of where Greek football stands currently.
AS: How much potential do you see in Greece with football?
I can only be optimistic because I’m very patriotic and believe in the people and their passion for football.
Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom, so the appropriate action can be taken. I feel that Greek football experienced the absolute high of 2004, to the lows of not having participated in a major tournament since 2014.
I feel this low can be the catalyst for positive change, and with strong leadership at the Federation level, the game can flourish in the future. Hopefully, the starting point can be renewed optimism in the National Team, which creates a sense of pride and affiliation lacking in the last few years for various reasons.
AS: Have you followed the path of John van ‘t Schip and how he turned around the Greek national team after the horrible years since the 2014 World Cup?
I have followed from afar, and it seems that the change has created a sense of optimism, and it bodes well so far for the next World Cup qualifying campaign.
One thing for certain, which I know first-hand having worked with John van’ t Schip, is that he is not afraid to play younger players, and he prefers playing a ball possession style of play.
Both of these characteristics resonate with me, and if he can convince the players coming into the national team of his methods and philosophy, and have them buy-in, then hopefully the horrible last few years can be left behind.
AS: Which Greek players stand out for you currently?
There is definitely a group of players coming through at the moment that if they can fulfill their potential, it will benefit the national team for years to come. These players include Vangelis Pavlidis, Pantelis Chatzidiakos, Marios Vrousai, Sebastian Vasiliadis, Dimitrios Limnios, Odysseus Velanas.
Aside from Limnios, the rest are playing their football outside of Greece, and it is potentially a group of players that, as long as they keep gaining consistent match experience in quality environments, should go on to have successful careers in top tier European leagues. The will also play a significant role in the national team setup of the Ethiniki Omada.
AS: Who is your favourite Greek player of all time?
Without a doubt, growing up, it was Dimitris Saravakos, one of the greatest Greek footballers of all time. Saravakos epitomised the successful era of the club and had me fall in love with the Prasini. Not to mention, the first top I ever received was sent from Greece by my auntie, and it was an original Panathinaikos shirt, and from that moment, they were my team even up until today.
AS: If you were to go to Greece tomorrow to work with the EPO on setting up a foundation to grow the Greek game, what would be the first couple of things you would go about doing?
It would be about developing a vision where instead of focusing on what happened in the past, i.e., the golden generation of 2004. It would be to create a vision for what football looks like, for example, 2030 and what steps we need to make together with that future aim clearly imbedded in the process.
In simple terms, to achieve that, there would be an immediate assessment at every level of the game from federation, clubs, academies, coaching, scouting, pathways, just to name a few.
This assessment would be the starting point and would allow us to develop an in-depth understanding of the current status of the game. From this point, a strategy would be devised to create clear aims and objectives to be achieved over a short, medium, and long-term period.
Of course, the major focus would be on developing a system that begins to produce world-class players consistently. Easier said than done, of course, but I am a big believer that Greece has the capabilities to produce such players. However, Greece has to be willing to make key decisions that will align the game across all levels. Only then can the country fulfill its undoubted potential.
Arthur, thank you for your time with us at AGONAsport; it has been a pleasure talking football with you. We wish you all the best in your future endeavors.
